true faith : DISCUSSION DAY – CARVER OUT

by • June 9, 2015 • NewsComments (27)1513

Running against all the received wisdom, including it seems his own, John Carver has
been sacked from his position as Newcastle United coach. Also following him out of the Lastsupperdoor is Steve Stone. There is no news on the future of Andy Woodman who has been linked with reuniting with Alan Pardew, now talking himself up at Selhurst Park as manager of Crystal Palace.

The decision to remove Carver and Stone is thought to pave the way for new manager Steve McLaren to enter stage right and have a free run at establishing his own coaching team which may or may not comprise of Paul Simpson and Lee Clark with highly regarded fitness coach Steve Black making a potential return to United.

So then, what do you make of it? Is this standard practice and nothing to pass much comment upon? Is it the sign of a new era of United making half decent football decisions? Have Stone and Carver been poorly treated and would there have been merit in retaining them at the club?

Needless to say, with both Carver and Stone having five years each left on their contracts that will mean United is tipping up quite a packet in compensation – is that a sign of the folly in giving mediocre people massive contracts? Does it expose the ignorance of the people running the club that they should get those kinds of deals in the first instance? Or am I being a wise after the event fanzine smart-arse?

Let us have your opinions on this latest development?

We had a great response to the DISCUSSION DAY dealing with the McLaren appointment in principle but events have moved on and we in the TF bunker are canvassing your opinions.

Please use the comments boxes below to let us know what you all think.

That is all.

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27 Responses to true faith : DISCUSSION DAY – CARVER OUT

  1. Alex scott says:

    I just hope they sacked them both on the same phone call. Never should have been given the job.

  2. Stephen says:

    Jose won’t sleep well tonight knowing that the best coach in the Premiership is on the loose.

  3. Common sense has eventually prevailed at NUFC with coaches who have grossly underpeformed not just for 6 months-but for over 3 years now.To me-there was little point bringing in a new manager, without letting them appoint their own coaching team who they both trust and are bought into the new mans philosophies. Carver, Stone, and Woodman have regressed players over time, and after all of the dreadful months since they took over – I dare say the squad started to lose faith and in some cases-respect for them.We all knew this needed to be a clean slate on many levels this Summer-and pleased to see that this is partly being carried out

  4. Chris Ord says:

    I think this had to happen really, Carver may have been doing his best with the players available but he just wasn’t up to the job and it showed in the performances under him and I don’t think the players had much confidence in him either. Playing a weakened team in the FA Cup (Most probably under instructions from Ashley and Charnley) lost him a lot of credibility straight away I think when he could have made a good impression of himself by playing a strong team in the cup. He didn’t do himself any favors with his arguments with fans by the dugout and his accusation of Williamson getting a red card on purpose. Him and Stone had to go really, a rather poor coaching set up and I’d probably expect now that Woodman could may well Join Pardew at Crystal Palace. I think it’s a good thing that Carver and Stone have gone as it paves the way for McClaren to bring in his own coaching staff. Hopefully good coaches who he knows and trusts.

    • Chris Ord says:

      * Or should I say just some good coaches even if McClaren hasn’t worked with them before, I’ve heard people say the likes of Les Ferdinand or Pavel Srniceck would be good appointments.

  5. Matthew Close says:

    Very overdue this move. I’m still struggling to work out what they ever did!

  6. Simon says:

    I welcome the departure of two evidently ineffective coaches, the lack of progression on the pitch and our seeming inability to consistly get the basics right must in some part be their responsibility. Carver as head coach was so dangerously incompetent he almost took us down in a flurry of idiocy, chest thumping and self delusion it is hard to believe he was in charge for as long as he was.

    What does that say about the man who saw fit to appoint him and persist with him long after it was plain to anyone with eyes to see that it was going dangerously wrong. The only thing that kept us up was a blind luck winning streak in late 2014 and the sheer dross at the foot of the league. It was a very, very close run thing. Yet Charnley remains in place despite innumerable catastrophic decisions. The man is more culpable than Carver in my opinion, his performance is inexcusably awful (at least from any kind of footballing perspective) and he should be dismissed immediately. At any other club his position would be untenable so why is he still here?

  7. Clocktoys says:

    Encouraged that there’s been a back room clear-out. Suggests some backbone shown by McClaren. However the acid test will be how Charnley operates in delivering the new spine the team so badly needs. Cautious to the point of abject timidity, I fear he will fuck it up. It could be a long and disappointing summer.

  8. Phil says:

    Shame that his happened to local lads but Carver (especially) made an absolute fool of himself with some of his comments.
    Won’t be missed.

  9. Paul smith says:

    I sense a small undercurrent of optimism among the natives. New manager incoming, Carver and Stone sacked and The Chronicle talking about £15 million man Charlie Austin. I suggest we will narrowly miss our transfer targets and sign 4 players no one has heard of ( although we might make one decent signing just to quell the public) for about the price we get for Sissoko or Krul and will finish 11 th just behind Stoke and Swansea. We will beat Kettering in the third round of the cup losing to Preston away with an under strength side due to “injuries”. The press will hail McClaren for turning the club around and criticise the fans for having unfair expectations when we show our displeasure at the brand of football. The Chronicle will do an end of season interview with Ashley/Charnley promising major signings and pushing in to the next level. Mark my words Michael and post this again if I’ve got it spectacularly wrong and I’ll give you £50 for your favourite charity. Carr out…..

  10. Bob says:

    I suspect they are holding on to Woodman in the hope Palace will make him an offer and Charnley can claim his compo. Palace will probably hold back in a bluff and we’ll see who blinks first. NUFC statement is rather kind to Carver and Stone but the outcome was the right one. It would have been difficult for them to get the players back onside and has been said many times there was no progression at all, either in tactics or set pieces. Can’t imagine it would have cost much to get rid.

  11. Davey says:

    Ashley should’ve sacked Charnley. It’s just a pity somebody can’t ‘sack’ Ashley. Charnley, along with Pardew, Carver and Stone should never have got the job in the first place let alone the ridiculous contracts. (Anyone thinking Pardew would’ve done much better are frankly kidding themselves as his run last year showed. Carver had slightly a worse squad post Jan 2015 than Pardew did post Jan 2014 so achieved slightly worse results).

  12. nick says:

    We didn’t like them because they were geordies.

  13. Ross Molyneux says:

    I can see Woodman being retained at least until young Freddie is established in the 1st team – we’ve got a quality asset there who could net his paymasters a lot more money than Krul or Forster if handled right.

    Overall it’s a great move. Carver can go back to propping up the bar in the Star Inn and bigging up his credentials, something he’s obviously far more competent at than prepping for set pieces and big games. Other than hanging on Carver’s coat tails, I never got the impression Stone offered anything other than being a ‘Bibs, Balls and Cones’ man’s assistant.

  14. Wallace Wilson says:

    Good reasoned discussion on here, without name calling and trolling – unlike some other websites. The discussion day is another good idea.
    It is obvious that both Carver and Stone had to leave but that hasn’t been enough in the past for Newcastle to make the right decision. I’ll reserve judgement regarding whether this is a trend that will be followed in the future. I suspect that Woodman has been kept on because he is actually pretty good at developing young lads – a number have gone on to international honours at youth level. However, it’s clear that Krul has regressed over the last couple of years. Is that Woodman’s fault or because he has no confidence in the players in front of him – I suspect more of the latter. As for Stone and Carver, I would like to know how they appear to have gathered a reputation as ‘good’ coaches as there appears to be no evidence to back this up. I know Carver has the Pro licence but the fact that he has it surely devalues the qualification rather than say anything about his personal qualities. Do they hand them out with media studies degrees?

  15. Jackson Yates says:

    The “anyone who’s not up for this can leave – there’s the door” anecdote from last season – a scene that Carver seemed to take massive pride in – made it clear to the world that him and Stone are total charlatans with no idea of what to do. The fact I’m surprised they’ve been fired does not reflect well on what we’ve come to expect from the regime.

  16. JR says:

    While it isn’t nice to see someone lose their job, at least the Pardew compensation money from Palace is being put to appropriate use. Neither man is good enough to continue and if the 20 game spell was their audition, it’s safe to say they fluffed their lines and deserve to go. It’s a rare positive step.

    Looking forward, I think McClaren is a good coach (but not a good manager) and I expect the team to improve under his tutelage (although, admittedly, it’d be a cold day in Hell for them *not* to improve). The problem remains, however, with the depleted, brittle and incapable squad. Unless we can replace three Championship-standard centre halves and add some serious firepower, I can’t see McClaren doing much more than securing that coveted 10th place for a couple of seasons.

  17. Colin McCabe says:

    For once a bit of good news coming out that doesn’t seem to have any caveats attached or hidden in there. The fact that the club actually did something that cost them money to do is a very positive sign that the fat man might actually mean that things will change. After all this IS a change from previous policy of the manager not getting a say in backroom staff.

    As stated above it isn’t nice to see them get sacked and the blame must go to Mini Mike for the appointments in the first place but they took on the roles, failed miserably and must therefore suffer the consequences

  18. Simon Sharp says:

    Can I just express my total lack of empathy, particularly for John Carver. History won’t remember him as the man who got NUFC relegated but it will remember him as the man who almost got us relegated. “He understands the club, he’s got passion”. Every single person who writes on this website has passion for the club I’ll wager (even those amongst us who are passionately miserable and cynical like I am) but if I was offered the Newcastle job I’d still say no. I know I’d be out of my depth in the cold light of day. For some reason John Carver couldn’t see this, or chose not to. He chose to be Ashley’s stooge and paid the price. Will he ever enjoy another meal out in Newcastle or its environs ever again? As others have said, the fact that Carver and Stone were given such long contracts doesn’t ring as a glowing endorsement of Lee Charnley’s abilities as a Chief Exec.

    The quality of coaching generally has been of concern for a while. I know our lads are not the tallest or most physical (hey, at least JC noticed that – give him his due) but our lack of threat from set pieces and our inability to defend them was a key feature of our ineptitude, not just this season but the last 3. You wonder what they do in training when in so many games we haven’t even got the basics right.

    Dave Billows has left as well I gather. Vaunted by the Evening Chroniclie as a “fitness supremo” when appointed last year. NUFC lost the most training days to injury last season of any PL club. Contrary to what Souness said when he was here, I don’t believe that’s all to do with the Darsley Park pitches – there is obviously a problem with the players’ conditioning or they are being rushed back from injury too soon.

  19. Ed Bell says:

    If we were going to replace them with some real quality then it may make a difference… But we won’t… So it doesn’t…

  20. Peter Shearer says:

    My view is that the changes are aimed at reducing the discontent and the fan protests,but my mind will not change until either Ashley goes or his actions indicate he is a changed man (the odds on that are extremely high). I will continue my boycott as I simply do not trust Ashley, and it will be interesting to see if McClaren (assuming it is him) will go along with the Ashley ways or he too will soon realise what he has let himself in for.I guess those on the borderline will give the new man a chance,but it is stretching the imagination to think that Ashley has actually learnt,rather than just pretend that he has learnt! He is a creature of habit, and his habit is control!

  21. Andy bee says:

    Nick….we didn’t like them cos they were Geordies ….hilarious mate , very funny! 🙂 two fingers to the cockney press hahah.

    Willing to give ‘supermac’ a sporting chance but hit the ground running pal we don’t want a summer of false promises and shite from the chron/Sunday sun. Our new saviour is obviously behind the rest of the football world having just come back from holiday (sacked then holidaying….lucky bastad) . Point being can he make up for this staggered start and deliver the quality we badly need in virtually all positions? Eg Ings already tied up and gone . So it’s simple, bolster the squad , 6 points from the unwashed and a trip down Wembley way …….or will it be a beasant/hendrie/Thorne/Robertson photo shoot with a tonking on day one at merseyside?! Prove us all wrong please wally brolly.

  22. Ian Summers says:

    I feel sympathy for John Carver and Steve Stone as they were hung out to dry by the club. That the national media seem to not realise the ridiculously thin nature of our squad last season is bizarre. For crucial games in the heart of a relegation battle we had no central defenders! The release of Mbiwa and Santon without replacement in January was pure madness no matter what you think of their ability. I find it hard to believe JC & SS agreed to their sale. I think John Carver was too honest with the media and that he became overexposed reflects badly on the club more than him. Vitriolic personal attacks on John Carver to me are unjustified as he is clearly a decent honest bloke. He gave his all when working for our club and our near relegation should be blamed on Ashley, Charnley and Carr alone.

  23. Niall Fleming says:

    John “Son Of Joe Kinnear” Carver was not placed in an impossible position. He could have refused the interim Head Coach role. At his level he should have enough self awareness both of his capabilities and the situation within the club. He was protected by a long term contract. Of course he should have refused the interim role.

    He was, sadly, a deluded man in a club which seems to attract the deluded (as well as the shysters). Unlike some he has a compensation package and the opportunity to find something else to do before his money runs out.

  24. the pole says:

    1 of thegang of 3 cees has gone lets just hpoe charnley and carr will follow carver out of door and FCB gets replacements who know something about football

  25. Keith says:

    Steve Black and I share a mutual friend, apparently he has been set to go to United for a while now, before any mention of Mclaren, just something to think about.

    Has a reputation as an excellent fitness supremo, hopefully our injury list won’t be so catastrophic from here!